question Hercules Cycle and Motor Company: bicycles for British forces during WW2?

I'm after information about the Hercules Cycle and Motor Company, more specifically whether they supplied bicycles to the British forces before the end of WW2?

All I found about their involvement in wartime production is that they made bipod legs, gas cylinders and magazines for Bren guns (source).

But since they were one of Britain's largest bicycle manufacturers, I guess they did supply them, but I need more detailed information.

Who knows more, or can point me towards vitage bicycle sources / forums / etc. which could tell me more?

Thanks in advance!

Hanno

Hi Hanno

try this link

http://bsamuseum.wordpress.com/1947-mercury-roadster/

There is plenty of information here on all tpes of WD military bicycles.

Regards

Gary

Hello Gary,

Thanks for the link, I'll look into it!

Regards,

Hanno

This is why I'm after information on the Hercules Cycle and Motor Company.

I own an ex-Netherlands Army bicycle, which I acquired it via cycle repair shop which bought a lot of bicycles from a local Army garrison in Amersfoort, The Netherlands.

The first layer of paint is black, then some sort of Army green, and then olive drab. The top of the frame head has red-white-blue striping, typical of Dutch Army bicycles. It has been fitted with many later-build parts over the course of it's military service which lasted into the early 1980s.

Over the years, all I have done is fit another saddle, pedals and new tyres and ride it occasionally. It fits me perfect as I'm a long guy and the bike has a 26 inch frame with 28 inch wheels.

But after I scraped some paint off the frame head, I found a decal under a yellow roundel. With some searching on the internet I came to the conclusion this is a Hercules decal.

So that's why I'm after information about the Hercules Cycle and Motor Company, or more specifically whether they supplied bicycles to the British forces.

Could anyone please confirm this is indeed a Hercules bicycle and would anyone be able to date it by its frame number CB 9526?

Are there any other areas of the frame I should have a close look at for markings or any other clues to its identity?

Thanks in advance!

Hanno

Is it a single coaster brake in the back hub?

Is it a single coaster brake in the back hub?

Hi Tony,

Yes, but it is a 1950's Dutch-made hub. One of the many parts replaced to keep it running during it's long service with the Army.

Hanno

Hercules certainly supplied bicycles to Ministry of Supply contracts in some considerable numbers but it's not always possible to tell from MoS ledgers if contracts were intended for the War Office or other official bodies. Some cycles (such as those supplied by Enfield) are referred to as 'WD Pattern'

This 1943 contract shows 7500 'Trade Pattern' cycles.

I've seen reference with other manufacturers to contracts split between 24" and 26" frames so the size does not rule out a government contract.

This entry shows that Phillips, Elswick Hopper and Hercules were contracted at the same time to produce 'spare parts for Hercules Bicycles' which perhaps suggests that Hercules didn't have the capacity themselves and points towards a considerable number in service.

I have only researched powered two-wheelers and don't have copies of the index pages relating to Bicycles or to manufacturers beginning with 'H' so the copies above are those that I have by chance. A days work in the National Archive would give a pretty good idea of numbers suppplied by Hercules but not in any great detail.

Hi Tony,

 

Yes, but it is a 1950's Dutch-made hub. One of the many parts replaced to keep it running during it's long service with the Army.

 

Hanno

The coaster brake is not usual in England, but the BSA Mkv bike did have one, plus a brake block type on the front. I hope to aquire one soon. :cool2:

Hercules certainly supplied bicycles to Ministry of Supply contracts in some considerable numbers but it's not always possible to tell from MoS ledgers if contracts were intended for the War Office or other official bodies. Some cycles (such as those supplied by Enfield) are referred to as 'WD Pattern'

 

This 1943 contract shows 7500 'Trade Pattern' cycles.

 

 

I've seen reference with other manufacturers to contracts split between 24" and 26" frames so the size does not rule out a government contract.

 

This entry shows that Phillips, Elswick Hopper and Hercules were contracted at the same time to produce 'spare parts for Hercules Bicycles' which perhaps suggests that Hercules didn't have the capacity themselves and points towards a considerable number in service.

 

 

I have only researched powered two-wheelers and don't have copies of the index pages relating to Bicycles or to manufacturers beginning with 'H' so the copies above are those that I have by chance. A days work in the National Archive would give a pretty good idea of numbers suppplied by Hercules but not in any great detail.

I'd be interested to know if the ledger illustrations are a result of your own research in the National Archives and whether you can advise me as to the procedure for arranging a visit and looking for vehicle or trailer contract details,dates of contract placement etc. Is this the best place to look for this information ?

Thanks, David.

David, Yes indeed. Far too many mis-spent hours and days in the National Archive. In this case together with 'Rewdco' who also posts here.

Visiting is straightforward - details are on the website. You'll need identification to obtain a reader's card and it is now compulsory to undergo a computerised test. I scored 100% with no re-takes so it's not too difficult ! Take a digital camera and make sure you know how to turn the shutter sound off. Camera stands are provided. It's better to copy everything you can get your hands on than to try reading and understanding it there as you'll just get bogged down in the details.

There are something over 400 Ministry of Supply contract ledgers relating to wartime contracts (some commence pre-war and end later). Of these, probably twenty or so are relevant to vehicles. However, although there are crude indices, they are not consistent and Demand, contract and completion dates can be in no particular order. The amount of detail shown varies considerably. Early war can be quite good but later contracts, once the MoS also took on AM and Admiralty purchases are little more than listings.

There are also files relating to MEE / TT2 tests and appraisals where you may find lots of detail (or nothing at all...it's a needle and haystack job).

Prior planning is essential. Anyone turning up without a list of files to look at won't get far in a day. I'll happily run through the most likely files with you.

Which manufacturer are you looking at and around which date ? If they were coincidentally on the same page as a motorcycle contract then I may have something on file.

The coaster brake is not usual in England, but the BSA Mkv bike did have one, plus a brake block type on the front. I hope to aquire one soon. :cool2:

Tony,

Indeed, as I understand it the WWII Mark V has a front rim brake (Phillips stirrup pattern) with either a similar Phillips rim rear brake or alternatively a coaster hub brake.

Looking forward to seeing your new acquisition soon!

Hanno

Yes the V has the coaster the V* is the one with stirrup brakes at both ends.

Hercules certainly supplied bicycles to Ministry of Supply contracts in some considerable numbers but it's not always possible to tell from MoS ledgers if contracts were intended for the War Office or other official bodies. Some cycles (such as those supplied by Enfield) are referred to as 'WD Pattern'

 

This 1943 contract shows 7500 'Trade Pattern' cycles.

 

I've seen reference with other manufacturers to contracts split between 24" and 26" frames so the size does not rule out a government contract.

Thanks 79x100 - really very useful info!

From Rob van Meel I understand that in some war establishments the British military bicycle Mk V is referred to as "trade pattern bicycle", this ties in with the order entry you show above.

I deciphered it as follows:

"Gents trade pattern bicycles to [illegible] standard specification 24" frames & complete with tools and toolbag, pump, bell + rear carrier complete with two [illegible]. Lamps not required."

Who can make out the two illegible (to me) words?

Going by that description, very much like the BSA Mk V shown below, I'd say:

Now I need to find out about Hercules' stadard brake setup to determine whether I need to find a Phillips rim rear brake or a coaster hub brake.

Any more information or tips on where to find info and/or parts are more than welcome!

Thanks,

Hanno

Sorry to jump into your thread chaps but we have a bike here which was Grandfathers - it has Hercules on the back end of the saddle but we can't find any other markings on it - did they supply saddles to other cycle manufacturers or does this indicate that it could actually be a Hercules ?

I read it as :-

"Gents trade pattern bicycles to Contractor's standard specification 24" frames & complete with tools and toolbag, pump, bell + rear carrier complete with two straps. Lamps not required."

Were they used with webbing or leather straps on the rear carriers ?

Sorry to jump into your thread chaps but we have a bike here which was Grandfathers - it has Hercules on the back end of the saddle but we can't find any other markings on it - did they supply saddles to other cycle manufacturers or does this indicate that it could actually be a Hercules ?

No problem as long as we keep the subject on Hercules bicycles

A quote from the Wikipedia page on this manufacturer (see 1st posting in this thread):

After 1923, Hercules produced the majority of the components of their bicycles, apart from the inner tubes and tyres.

So the fact that is has a Hercules saddle is certainly a clue, although it could have been retrofitted to any other bike as well. I'd look for further clues, try to see if it still has remains of the head badge?

Yes the V has the coaster the V* is the one with stirrup brakes at both ends.

Thanks Tony, this is confirmed by a quote from The BSA & Military Bicycle Museum:

The MkV* designation means that the bicycle had conventional roller lever brakes, whereas the MkV had a roller lever front and coaster (back-pedal) rear brake.

Do you have any period references like handbooks, manuals, etc?

I read it as :-

 

"Gents trade pattern bicycles to Contractor's standard specification 24" frames & complete with tools and toolbag, pump, bell + rear carrier complete with two straps. Lamps not required."

 

Were they used with webbing or leather straps on the rear carriers ?

Thanks, that makes sense.

See "Pedal Power - The British Military Bicycle" by Ian Skennerton for a drawing of a pre-WW2 Mk IV bicycle with a "Carrier, kit, Mk IV, rear "fitted with two "straps, 43 to 43 1/2 ins long" [not sure if I read the numbers right?].

But it does not give a clue whether these were webbing or leather. Would, by 1943, webbing not be the first choice of material?

As you can see the bottom lug/tube has the tell-tale hole for a bolt which is the pivot point for the rear brake lever, so this Hercules must be a MkV* with conventional roller lever brakes front and rear.

Once you dive into a subject like this, details keep popping up and one learns something new every day!

Sorry to jump into your thread chaps but we have a bike here which was Grandfathers - it has Hercules on the back end of the saddle but we can't find any other markings on it - did they supply saddles to other cycle manufacturers or does this indicate that it could actually be a Hercules ?

Saddles were supplied by a number of manudactures, they are an Expendable Item, even a leather saddle will wear out eventually.

I read it as :-

 

"Gents trade pattern bicycles to Contractor's standard specification 24" frames & complete with tools and toolbag, pump, bell + rear carrier complete with two straps. Lamps not required."

Pre-war Hercules factories used mass-production techniques, producing more than 1,000 cycles a day (each taking less than 10 minutes to assemble). So an order of 7,500 to be delivered at a rate of 600 per month [did I read that right?] meant it had to fit right in their production system with only minimal alterations.

Not sure from when this catalog is, but the Hercules "Stirling" Roadster (without the optional 3-speed hub) could fit the "Contractor's standard specification" bill: 24in. frame with 28in. wheels, front and rear roller-lever brakes, toolbag + spanner, "inflator". Only a bell and a rear carrier need to be added, plus service colour, no bright parts and - hey presto! - a bicycle compliant to the British military bicycle Mk.V* specs.

I read it as 600 per month also. Having glanced at the entries for numerous classes of vehicles, I have to say that either the manufacturers were constantly trying to fiddle on the tool kit contents or there was a clerk at the MoS obsessed by them. Most of the detail relates to the additional bits and pieces rather than major structures.

I'm surprised by the lack of chain guards on many of the machines from the 1930s and '40s. I'd had the impression that they were quite keen on tinwear. There must have been lots of oily gaiters.

Just out of interest, whilst looking for the Hercules entry (which I knew I'd seen), I found bicycle contracts for Hudson Ltd., Enfield Cycle Co., Phillips, Sun Cycle, Coventry Eagle, BSA and Raleigh. Interestingly, there was a Raleigh contract for folding bicycles.

I think it is important to stress the social and military importance of the humble Pedal Bicycle at the time. Fuel was in short supply, strictly rationed and post war, also rubber was a major statigic commodity. Any use of steel had to be carefully considered , and production time on machinery, so no fripperies. Yet the average person still had to move! To work, to shop, social life. Doctors had to visit patients, Vets, Police, District Nurses, all had to be able to move around, and carry equipment. Look at the cost of these machines, they were over the average weeks wages, not cheap bits of kit.

David, Yes indeed. Far too many mis-spent hours and days in the National Archive. In this case together with 'Rewdco' who also posts here.

 

Visiting is straightforward - details are on the website. You'll need identification to obtain a reader's card and it is now compulsory to undergo a computerised test. I scored 100% with no re-takes so it's not too difficult ! Take a digital camera and make sure you know how to turn the shutter sound off. Camera stands are provided. It's better to copy everything you can get your hands on than to try reading and understanding it there as you'll just get bogged down in the details.

 

There are something over 400 Ministry of Supply contract ledgers relating to wartime contracts (some commence pre-war and end later). Of these, probably twenty or so are relevant to vehicles. However, although there are crude indices, they are not consistent and Demand, contract and completion dates can be in no particular order. The amount of detail shown varies considerably. Early war can be quite good but later contracts, once the MoS also took on AM and Admiralty purchases are little more than listings.

 

There are also files relating to MEE / TT2 tests and appraisals where you may find lots of detail (or nothing at all...it's a needle and haystack job).

 

Prior planning is essential. Anyone turning up without a list of files to look at won't get far in a day. I'll happily run through the most likely files with you.

 

Which manufacturer are you looking at and around which date ? If they were coincidentally on the same page as a motorcycle contract then I may have something on file.

Thanks for your very comprehensive reply (is it Rik?) Sorry for the delay in replying.

I must store your advice away safely until I get some free time and I'm sure it will help me no end. Anything further you can add will be well received.

I'm going to start with the 10 cwt GS,Mortar and Ammunition trailers. I have already a list of contract numbers,makers names and the census number block but would like to know the dates of contract placement and delivery. Is there a short cut to that information or might you already have pages which includes this info .

Thanks again,

David.

I think it is important to stress the social and military importance of the humble Pedal Bicycle at the time. Fuel was in short supply, strictly rationed and post war, also rubber was a major statigic commodity. Any use of steel had to be carefully considered , and production time on machinery, so no fripperies. Yet the average person still had to move! To work, to shop, social life. Doctors had to visit patients, Vets, Police, District Nurses, all had to be able to move around, and carry equipment. Look at the cost of these machines, they were over the average weeks wages, not cheap bits of kit.

Yes indeed. In those days the bicycle was the main means of transport for most people, cars were of course not yet commonplace. The bicycle provided unprecedented individual mobility to the working class.

Also Armies relied on the bicycle for troop movement. During WW2 the German Army had many units relying on the bicycle. By 1940 the Dutch Army had two regiments of cyclists, totalling some 5600 infantry riding into battle on bicycle.